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Talk:Power Up
Can we get a new image for this article? The current one is low quality. 05:25, September 27, 2010 (UTC) Image of Vegeta powering up. I'm not sure the image of Vegeta powering up should be there. It looks fake, because of the background, and you can see at the bottom in-between his legs a white space where somebody has forgotten to remove it in photo shop or something similar. I am not getting rid of it now, because it might be legit, I don't know. 09:06, July 5, 2011 (UTC) It comes from Vegeta's first transformation: see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHsenQ72htA at 0:36 Jeangabin666 10:02, July 5, 2011 (UTC) Yeah you're right, it just looks like somebody tempered with it, like the little white space in-between his legs. It looked it it's been photoshopped. 10:05, July 5, 2011 (UTC) :The white space is also in the video at 0:37. Jeangabin666 10:06, July 5, 2011 (UTC) Master Roshi Max Power Would Master Roshi going to max power in Dragon Ball be counted as Powering up? Because if it is, it might be the first appearance of powering up. 55px[[User:Ssj2gohan99|'Ssj2']]40px[[User:Ssj2gohan99|'gohan']]57px55px 05:29, December 18, 2011 (UTC) There Techniques Were Okay. [[User:Yuki Saki|''' Yuki Saki ~']] 艶光路 撫子 20:40, March 5, 2013 (UTC) Lots of issues with this article The stuff in parenthesis in the middle of paragraphs. It's distracting and takes away from the official appearance of the article. Why can't we just add these facts in specifically? In addition to this, rage and anger are practically the same thing, all that matters is the level of degree. I don't know why they need to be distinguished. Super Saiyan and Kaioken are not even remotely the same thing. SSj is a transformation, while Kaio-ken is not, therefore the effects on the body are completely different. --Ketchup Revenge (talk) 01:01, February 6, 2014 (UTC) :The details in parenthesis in fact belong to the proper article, not this one. Kaio-ken and USS are listed as examples of techniques which increase power but introduce weakness: the Kaio-ken weakens the user's body, and USS decreases speed. :What're you're writtin isn't backed up by source, you're writtin your opinion most of the time: a Power Up is used exclisively to increase ''ki, you've added a whole ki Supression paragraph which in fact doesn't belong to this article, it was originally just brefly mentioned, which was all it deserved on a Power Up article. You're writting the "specific process is not entirely understood" on every paragraph while it's clearly explained in every media, anime, video games, etc. Also, se basis of you're whole rewritting of the article you've confused Power Up with Ki increase. Power Up, and even Power Level, isn't exclisively related to Ki or Ki Level. Where was it stated the Kaio-ken increase ki (which is what you wrote on the article), it sure increase Goku's power and his Power Level, but it was never stated it increased his Ki Level. In fact, in video games, Kio-ken decreases the Ki Level. 01:19, February 6, 2014 (UTC) ::You clearly have NEVER read the manga or any official guide of the series, all of which are far more reliable sources than anything that you're arguing for, which is probably dub material. Kaioken is described in the manga to double a user's ki. It specifically states it in volume 4 of the DBZ manga when Goku explains it to Krillin after using it on Nappa. Kaioken is not a transformation. It is not classified as one in the manga, Super Exciting Guide, or Daizenshuu, which are all official supplemental guides to the series. I don't know how I can make this any more clear. The video games clearly do nothing to explain the validity of transformations, and they hardly even increase the character's power. The "forms" in the videogames are specifically generic power ups. This means that they all act the same, and have absoultely NOTHING to do with what actually happens in the series. The components in the video games are for entertainment only, and are not a reliable source for anything in the series, especially not form strengths. This is the reason why you can beat Majin Buu with SSj Goku. That could never happen in the actual series because Goku's SSj is simply too weak. PLEASE, I implore you to actually read stuff you can readily find in the US before you go off on "where does it say this"? --Ketchup Revenge (talk) 01:47, February 6, 2014 (UTC) ::Kaio-ken isn't a transformation, so?? It isn't listed as such in the article. Absorption aren't direct power ups. They're particular cases which aren't needed to be listed in the very first sentences of the article. Also, once again, do not write the technique isn't well known in real world, this not revelent and false. No well known to what extand?? We can say the same thing for the Kamehameha or any other techniques in the series. So I don't know why you're so obssessed with writting this everywhere on the Power Up page. The Power Up name and concept originally comes from video games, which is why we refer to video games on this article. In fact, the page was originally for the Blast 1 technique called Power Up in the Tenkaichi games, not for every form of power increase in the series. 02:01, February 6, 2014 (UTC) ::You are seriously mistaken if you honestly believe that the concept of "power ups" as we understand it in DB comes from the video games. "Power ups" as far as the understanding of the Dragon Ball series goes (and this is the Dragon Ball wiki, am I correct?), goes back to the introduction of them in the manga series, in which was published in the late 80s. Of which was produced well before the video games ever "introduced" them. ::If you want to actually write an article about "Blast 1" from the video games, than you need to create a separate article for it being that the power ups in the actual manga and anime series are completely different than what you're interpreting from the video games. The power ups from the video games aren't even remotely the same as the ones in the actual series, as the ones from the video games are simply generic. This means that they all have the same property, and the individual properties of them can't be confirmed and varified into set numbers or characteristics related to power. ::I will say that it's editors like yourself is the reason why no serious DBZ fans actually takes the information on this wiki seriously. People that edit the way that you do have never read the manga (which is the only consistent source for the series being that it is a DIRECT translation of Akira Toriyama's work, and is available in the US from Viz media), and have never read an official guide or even looked on the extremely reliable English website Kanzenshuu.com, which clarifies basic information of this stuff into actual sourceable material that can be read in plain English. Most of the editors here want nothing to do with it if it's not from FUNImation, or from the video games, which have nothing to do with the actual facts in the series. Ketchup Revenge (talk) 02:23, February 6, 2014 (UTC) :First of all, learn the rules of the wiki. We're in an edit war, and in that case, stop editing the page and leave it as it was before the edit war. About the point you added that are incorrect and which you first have to explain on the talk page before perhaps readding them: #You have a whole article about Power Up detailing every forms and how it works, and write everywhere it isn't well understood. #Power Up include transformations and muscle mass increase (Roshi's MAX Power and the Makyan's muscle increase for example), so it's not just limited to ki. #"The most basic being ki concentration, which forces the ki into small areas or points, thus increasing the power of attacks without altering ki amount" is mentioned several times on the article, it doesn't need to be mentioned on every sections. "Powering up comes in several different shapes and sizes; some require a full-blown anatomical transformation, others may power up with little to no change in their appearance." is enough for the Overview, more details belong to the following sections. #"However, his ability is not seen to be on the same level as Goku's, being that when he possessed his body, he could not raise the power in Goku's body to anywhere near the level that Goku could." It's clearly explained Ginyu couldn't increase his level to that of Goku because he wasn't used to Goku's body. No mentioned of their Powering Up techniques being different. #"This involuntary ki increase is seen at several times in the series, most particularly from Gohan who was shown to have a vastly varying power level in accordance with the state of his emotions. The first instance of this was soon after he was introduced, in which his rage at his uncle Raditz ignited an involuntary power up that was caused when he could hear his father Goku being beaten mercilessly by Raditz. Gohan later learns to curve these involuntary outbursts, and use them in accordance with the more controlled Super Saiyan transformations" too much info about Gohan. This isn't Gohan's biography. Example should be mentioned briefly. We can't have a whole section detailing a single example of Powering Up when the series is filled with characters powering up. #"Voluntary ki increase is perhaps most often seen just prior to a character taking flight" stop mentioning a name you created "ki increase" when an official name exist "Power Up". #"Kaio-ken which doubles the user's ki under regular circumstances" Kaio-ken x3, x10, x20 exist. "Advanced training with the Kaio-ken can amplify the ki even more, as Goku is seen to be able to amplify his ki up to 20x during the Frieza Saga" Goku used advanced Kaio-ken in the Vegeta Saga without having traing in-between the fight with Nappa and the fight with Vegeta. So training needed to use advanced Kaio-ken isn't confirmed. And most of all, those details aren't needed. Kaio-ken is just an example of Power Up and only deserve a brief mention, not a whole section. #"Goku's first Super Saiyan transformation is suggested to give him a 50 fold power boost" belongs the the Super Saiyan article. #"The power ups in video games are quite different than the ones seen in the series, as they are generic and linear increases in attack strength and defense power. Kaio-ken is either treated as the same thing as a transformation, or it is a temporary state which increases your attack and defense power, but burns your ki gauge and disables your ki gathering ability. Super Saiyan 3 similarly can be sustained for an indefinite amount of time by the player in the video games, while in the series, the strain from the transformation is too much to where the user can't sustain it for long periods of time." is your opinion. There is a large variety of power ups in the series, from the basic ki gathering to transformation, defense up, attack up, etc. :The series never stated Power Up is limited to Ki Up, which a misconception you're including in this article. Do not confuse Power Up and Ki Up, don't include useless details, examples have to be mentioned briefly without being detailed. Details belong to proper articles, otherwise we would have one single very large article on this wiki. 10:14, February 6, 2014 (UTC) ::You're complaining about me supplying "useless details"? You're editing the article to have examples that have no relevance to each other. Kaioken and "Ultra Super Saiyan" are not even remotely the same thing, so I don't understand why you're putting them under the same example. One is a transformation, while the other is a ki increasing technique. I also find it humorous that suddenly you act like an expert on everything, when just a month ago you didn't even know that Kaioken doubles ki "for a heartbeat". This is the official definition of it. The amplification can be increased through training, and you have no evidence that Goku didn't train with it in the afterlife. He knew how because Kaiosama said that he "told him not to go any higher than a regular one." Just because he didn't use it against Nappa or Vegeta (early on) doesn't mean that he didn't train with it in the afterlife. Ketchup Revenge (talk) 08:06, March 9, 2014 (UTC)